[matspud]

The way he tries to get round the whole selling others' patterns by saying the patterns are free and buyers are paying for his time etc sickens me

[matspud]

several carved kins with ZP patterns. At first I thought tey could be selling off ones they no longer wanted but they are listed as new and unused .

http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-Custom-Carve ... 4ac9c8d82e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-Custom-Carve ... 4ac9c8d82e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also this seller

http://www.ebay.com/sch/rjmg0512/m.html ... 7675.l2562" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chuckwagon]

I think the most upsetting thing is that these people make no mention of ZP! or any of the other sites at all. I can appreciate people putting time and effort into a pumpkin because, lets face it, not everyone has the desire that folks like us do for carving out some of the more intricate designs, and only like to see and display the finished product. But at the very least, you could acknowledge that you did not design or create the stencil, and offer credit to Ryan, or Stoney,or Mesmark or whoever's stencil you happen to use.

It's still wrong on all levels to profit on someone else's hard work, NO DOUBT, but it amazes me that people lack the common decency to just say "I did not design this", and say I got this from 'so-and-so.com'. Sure I done carves for a few people in the past, and never ever thought of making a small business out of it, but ANY time I have ever done so, I've only asked for the price of the pumpkin they request or tell them to get one and bring it to me, and let them pick a pattern that they like. I never carve foamies for other people because I do think it's wrong to just give away one of Ryan's designs that hasn't been paid for technically, and let them save it forever. At least the real 'kins rot away, and can't be re-used.

But the main thing I always always always do, is hand them a flyer that I print out when I give them the pumpkin and give Ryan all the credit, and tell them to come check out all the great designs and think about contributing and trying one out themselves to see how much fun it is. These ebayers are just scum... they could care less.

[chuckwagon]

I actually just re-read my own post and feel ashamed after thinking about carving pumpkins for neighbors and friends using Ryan's stencils... Am I in the wrong for doing that even if I'm letting people know about the site and promoting it with flyers and only asking for money to buy the pumpkin or have them go to a patch and pick one out?

[mesmark]

it's a little gray. the terms and conditions section states, "You may not sell products that make use of the pattern designs." but nothing about giving away products that make use of the design.

giving away your foamies is probably OK. getting a foamie from someone and carving a pattern on it for them is probably OK, but buying the pumpkin, carving the pattern, and then being reimbursed throws you into the gray area.

However, I'm 98 and 3/4% sure that in court Ryan will take lack of malicious intent into consideration

[chuckwagon]

but considering that I'm not using foamies for the sole purpose of them not lasting, and also as an outlet to draw more awareness to the site... definitely never had malicious intent cross my mind. And quite honestly, I have never even promoted myself, i.e. "hey i'll carve a pumpkin for you for X amount of money...", but I've only ever been approached by friends and relatives who asked if I could duplicate something that I've already done, or just wanting to know where in the heck I got such cool patterns from. That's why I do carves for others, and I do wanna emphasize that I don't charge people anything. there is never any profit going into my pocket at all. any money they ever gave me is used to buy a real pumpkin, and they even get the change back, but usually they buy it themselves. I agree though, gray area.... I'd like to hear Ryans opinion because ultimately they are his creations, and if he says no dice, than that means no more pumpkins for people except myself. I am not trying to step on toes at all.

[Zombie Pumpkins!]

I actually just re-read my own post and feel ashamed after thinking about carving pumpkins for neighbors and friends using Ryan's stencils...

No need to worry, Chuck. As Mark suggested, it's all about intent. You're not shamelessly trying to profit from my designs. And you're going out of your way to spread the word about Zombie Pumpkins! Very much appreciated.

This topic inspired me to edit the Terms page to say that you "may not profit" rather than "may not sell." Because in some instances, selling can be okay. Just to recap a few scenarios...

• If you're trying to make room for new foam pumpkins in your collection, and want to sell some of the old ones at cost, that's fine.
• If you know someone who wants a carved pumpkin but is unwilling to try carving themselves, if you sell them a carving a cost, that's fine.
• If you carve other people's pumpkins, or give them your own carved pumpkins, that's totally fine.
• If you carve some pumpkins and auction them off for charity, absolutely fine.
• If you use the patterns to make other projects (e.g. a t-shirt) to give as a gift, that's fine.
• If you want to sell a small number of carved pumpkins for a small profit, and are willing to present them nicely, and give full credit to ZombiePumpkins.com as the source of the pattern, that should be fine. I just ask people to check with me about the specifics before I officially grant the permission.

Meanwhile, some of the things that would be frowned upon...

• Selling many carved pumpkins, solely to make significant profits, is prohibited.
• Selling carved pumpkins, and going out of your way to not give credit, claiming yourself as the original artist, is prohibited.

You can tell when someone has a more malicious intent. Sometimes I'll see a site that is offering a service of pumpkin carving, letting buyers choose from my entire stencil collection. And these sellers don't give credit to me as the source of the pattern, because they don't want their buyers to realize that they could do it themselves if they tried. The shady seller keeps it a secret, so they can keep charging for my art. They are among the worst type of offenders.

Again, it really just comes down to your intentions. I know several of the loyal members here have sold pumpkins or shared patterns, but not to shamelessly profit from my work. Usually it helps to spread the word about Zombie Pumpkins, which is great! If you give a carving to someone else, let them know where they can find the pattern. And encourage them to carve, by letting them know that it's not too hard. We're always looking to recruit new carvers!

[chuckwagon]

Thanks for the clarification Ryan. My biggest peeve was the profiting from your stuff, which I have never done anyway. I will admit that I started thinking that maybe I was being a little back handed by even doing carves for people who didn't pay the minimum membership fee.

But hey, at least I know your NOT angry and you even edited the T&C's... Thank you as usual for making things fool proof. if you were a girl I'd kiss ya.

[staticfurball]

It's probably a total scam. customers pay for these stolen patterns and he makes $$ closes account and laughs at everyone who got suckered.

[paddy_babe]

reported

[St0ney]

Ryan: So Glad to see that were both on the same page with this,

For me it's a Double Problem, for I also offer custom carving on my site also, and these guys, that open these custom carving sites, or ebay stores, actually under sell to get the sale. So I find myself competing with these other sites, that are using MY patterns, to me that's really F'ed up.

Some of these sites, feel they are doing right, by the designer, because they placed a sites banner on their links page.

I can only speak for myself, But even if they give credit, it does not warrant "permission" to sell the carved pumpkins.
They Have to Ask ! Like ZombiePumpkins!, I have Loyal members that have been around since day 1, and they go out of their way, Promoting the site, to help me.
So I do allow some to sell. But they still need to ask... in other words Mentioning my site in a ebay Sale/Post does not give them permission to sell.

I just Spent (4) Solid hours on one pattern - The most this pattern will cost anyone, is 20 cents. (depending on the credit package they buy)
They could get it for 7 cents.

There are So many things, out there that hurt our Paid pattern sites...
a) FREE Pattern Sites, (Really How do we compete with FREE) ??? -
b) Sites that Allow members to upload Tons of patterns they made.
c) Sites that have More than one person creating patterns for it... (so we have to work harder - to have as many patterns)
d) Sites, that allow members to fill and create pattern request (my site also offers custom patterns, so those sales also go down, when getting it for FREE)
e) Sites that Mirror another sites Patterns, (I'm now doing that also with one site,) If there is no Rules for them, there is no rules for me.
f) And Now all these Custom carving Sites, using Paid patterns for their carvings / sales.

Ahh it's nice to work on the sites Patterns ALL YEAR LONG!, and have to deal with all this Crap !!!

[St0ney]

And I MUST add one More For it Kills me Every Year to see this !!!

G) Google - how they program their search queries!

Now Let me explain this, And I'm not Bragging it's Fact, I have cloose to 7,500 patterns, That I made on my site, I think I need like 8 more to make the 7,500

In Google Sites like "Readers Digest" "Better Homes and Garden" Martha Stewart etc......

These Sites could ONLY offer like 10 FREE patterns, and they make the Top 10 on pumpkin carving patterns, Because of WHO they are, and their Sites Overall "YEARLY" Traffic.

We (The pumpkin pattern sites) get heavy traffic in Sept / OCT.... Only.

These Big Companies ~ Always Hurt the Little Guy !!

[mesmark]

And I MUST add one More For it Kills me Every Year to see this !!!

G) Google - how they program their search queries!:

I can get on board with this complaint. Those mega sites hoard the top spots. I hate the following inGoogle search:
- About.com's 3 blog posts (2011, 2012, 2013) about my content ranking higher
- wikipedia showing up for everything

When I search fora pumpkin pattern, I don't want a wikipedia article about when pumpkin patterns were first made available ...

[badgers]

And I MUST add one More For it Kills me Every Year to see this !!!

G) Google - how they program their search queries!:

I can get on board with this complaint. Those mega sites hoard the top spots. I hate the following inGoogle search:
- About.com's 3 blog posts (2011, 2012, 2013) about my content ranking higher
- wikipedia showing up for everything

When I search fora pumpkin pattern, I don't want a wikipedia article about when pumpkin patterns were first made available ...

Yeah!! What happened to the good ole days before wikipedia when real sites would come up in our searches? I hate having to look through search results to make sure they aren't "wiki" related.

[amandap80]

In related to google searching, you can exclude a site from coming up in your search results by using the '-' operator:
pumpkin patterns -site:bhg.com or -site:wikipedia.org
See how that changes your results. Of course, most users don't do this and you get the standard results from the big companies
It would be nice if there was a more user friendly way to present this search option.